Nudging: Manipulation or the Art of Boosting Solutions

MAR: 0:00

The reason why we think they're very important to It's not just because it's a strategy that it's 100% effectively. And we have seen in different studies, it's because it doesn't give you just specific actions that you need to do. It gives you the reasons why your consumers are consuming more, or they are more proactive to consume your products by using them.

PEDRO: 0:22

Although it's something that constantly is clients, what is bothering right now of your situation and how can we make it better? And this personalization is what makes your product way more attractive, and it makes sense to the client to have it.

MAR: 0:37

What nudge means it's pushing. What you need to aim is to push your customers or your prospects into positive things for them. If you're pushing them towards something positive, the reaction and the image of your brand, it's always going to be positive. If you push them to towards something that it's going to be negative or it's going to create a negative impact on them, then it's where you're surpassing the limits.

PEDRO: 0:59

This nudging theory is not for you to take engage with them and take the most for both.

AMY: 1:10

Hello everyone. It's me, Amy Caroline, your host In this episode, we'll explore the world of nudging, focusing on its main six series and its intricacies. Our guests today are Pedro and Mar, two of our beloved business advisors, and I'm confident it'll be both enjoyable and enlightening as they share their insights. Well, thank you both for joining me today. Can we start just by having you two introduce yourselves?

MAR: 1:35

Hello, Amy. Well, my name is Ma. I'm a partner manager at Odoo and day to day work w e are working with all local partners in different countries and we help them to grow as a company. So we are focusing our work in the marketing aspect, in the commercial aspects, and also making sure that they implement Odoo in the perfect way.

AMY: 1:59

Ah, great.

PEDRO: 2:01

I'm doing exactly the same. Also a partner manager. And yes, basically we try to support as much as we can to our partners, but also Odoo clients.

AMY: 2:10

Amazing. So obviously you know that you're here So let's just put down the basics. What is a nudge.

MAR: 2:19

Nudge or nudging which is basically the same. It's a concept in which you add some little modifications in the information that you're showing to your prospects in order to make them have a very specific answer. And that sounds kind of like a bit crazy, like how you do that. And it works because we understand how our brains works. So our brain every day, it's making like a lot of actions. Everything that we do, every action that we do needs the brain to be working. So that makes our brain to be exhausted. And as our brain is quite smart, what he does is to automatize some actions to make it kind of like less stress and kind of like reduce the amount of work. And what nudge it does is to take advantage of these automatic actions that our brain does and put in place the information in a way that, okay, the brain is going to think this specific thing and the person is going to react in that specific way. Even though each of us, we are all different, we have our own personality at the end. We're human beings, and we have kind of like the same denominator.

AMY: 3:26

So these nudges will impact us without us

PEDRO: 3:31

Exactly. And what is super cool is that not only And we have some cool examples. For instance, we have one that is an example of a Austria that they actually decided to have by default, that all the people that are born is a donor organ donor, right. But then in the case of Denmark, which is completely the opposite, they are not donors by default. So what we saw is that actually 99% of the people in Austria stay being an organ donor. Meanwhile, in Denmark, only 4%. So this kind of shows how change in certain behavioral acts and like environmental like things can affect on the decision of, of human beings. So that's super interesting. Yeah, that.

AMY: 4:17

Is super interesting. It can have a crazy impact It really I think it strikes a chord. I mean, definitely with me it's kind of like, wow, okay. That's huge.

PEDRO: 4:27

Exactly. Also like in Sweden, they did kind of They decided, okay, we want people to actually do more exercise and start avoiding the mechanical stairs. Personally, I love the mechanical stairs, but but actually they put it a piano. So people will actually change this behavior and start going through the piano stairs and do exercise. And they saw around a 66% change on the behavior of the people in the in the metro. So that's super cool too.

AMY: 4:58

Ah that is a super. Cool example, so everyone The next step is that they need to make it have sound, and then that will increase it even more. So we can see the huge impact from the examples that you've just provided. But if we're looking at it from a business or organization standpoint, why is it so important?

MAR: 5:17

So my colleague just explained some examples that small business, it's not going to go to the subway and put a kind of like a piano stairs, which cost a lot, but we can do much smarter things are available for businesses, and the reason why we think they're very important to use this nudging strategy. It's not just because it's a strategy that it's 100% effectively. And we have seen in different studies, it's because it doesn't give you just specific actions that you need to do. It gives you the reasons why your consumers are consuming more, or they are more proactive to consume your products by using them. So it kind of gives you the insights of why, instead of just the actions that you need to put into place. And kind of like understanding the reasons why behind it would lead you to imagine it and have much more creativity in the different activities that you're doing inside your company.

AMY: 6:13

But it seems so huge. There are just so many ways that you can influence someone. So how does a business even get started? Where do they even focus their attention on the first nudge that they will do? For example?

MAR: 6:27

For that we have prepared some hypotheses that we We will show specific examples of how to do it. So our idea is to first understand these hypotheses, understand the different options that you have, and use examples to guide yourselves. Because always it's much easier to understand everything if you're having specific examples that you can relate to. And then inside your companies, they will say, okay, we're doing this specific strategy, why we're doing or why this strategy is giving a positive effect. Well, this is giving a positive effect because of this specific hypothesis that we have already listened in our podcast, which is great. And then understanding that specific hypothesis is understanding the reasons behind there will will be able to apply it not just in that action, but in many other actions.

AMY: 7:20

What I really like about what you just said was positive, because with having this kind of influence, it's kind of scary, right? You can potentially manipulate people even if you don't intend to. And of course you could intend to be manipulative as well. It's kind of a fine line. What do you think about the ethics behind nudging?

PEDRO: 7:41

This is it's a great question, and it's something discuss about nudging. Right. Uh, I think what is important for a company is to first say, okay, what are the values that we have as a company and how we want to be seen from our clients and from society on how we use our marketing strategies. Right. For instance, if a company is doing bad actions, uh, people will start like actually rejecting them. And that's not attractive for a company, right? Uh, one example of this is, for instance, a fast food company actually created like an engineer system to bring a smell. So people will be actually more motivated to consume more. But this is something that then the consumer feels a little bit like manipulated, as you say. And that's something that is not good to do. And it brings a bad image for your company, which at the end you're trying to bring more revenue. But at the end of the day you actually created more rejections towards to, towards your brand. Right. So I think that's super important. Once you decided, okay, I want to use this kind of strategies, okay. Align them with your values and, and set up like a clear guideline on on how to structure them and what you want to achieve.

AMY: 8:52

And I guess it's well along the same lines. Maybe it's a bit tricky to know when you've gone too far if you don't realize that something will have a negative impact. So it's important for a business to constantly be evaluating the effect of their nudging strategies and being sure that it remains aligned with their values, as you said.

PEDRO: 9:09

Exactly. Super important. I think it's the golden rule. Golden rule yeah,

AMY: 9:14

Yeah. So how does it work exactly? What specific ways can we start doing this? Start nudging.

MAR: 9:21

So we have multiple ways of doing it. Uh, we could stay here like for hours and hours speaking. So which is not the goal because if not, it will be a bit boring. The podcast. So we're gonna focus today in six hypothesis, am I right? Great. Um, and we're gonna try to explain the hypothesis and then give some examples. So the people who are listening to us today can correlate the hypothesis with the example. And then as I said before, just try to make it in their specific way, taking into account their values, their products, their added value as a company and putting everything. Into a bucket and then deliver the actions that they want to do. So the first hypothesis that we had are incentives. We as humans respond to rewards, and also we respond to penalties. So if we want a specific answer from our customers or prospects, we were going to be more likely to have a positive reaction if we give rewards to our customers. And this is something that we can see a lot with the discounts. If we give a discount, of course the customer is going to run to buy us before then someone else that it's not giving any discount, but it can be also shown in many different ways. There's for example, some shops that are selling um, cosmetic products in bottles, and what they ask their customers is instead of throwing the bottle away, come to the shop when it's empty, the product and we will refill the bottle, and we will give you an additional discount because we will not be making you pay for this bottle. So the chances of having the people coming back to refill the butter are much higher. If we just say, okay, you come and we refill, but there is no discount, we have to give that type of incentive. Of course there is the eco friendly intent, but that's not working with everyone. And another situation, for example, if you're opening, you have a coffee shop, uh, yeah, a coffee shop, and you're opening and you want people to come, you could communicate that. For example, the ten first people that arrive to the coffee place every single day of that week will have an extra cookie for free. That way, as you're giving an incentive for the people to come to the shop, you have higher chances that, well, they will be making a queue in the front when you're opening.

PEDRO: 11:46

Well, also, we have a second hypothesis for you Okay. Mapping is about giving the clearest path to the customer to get to your service or product. Right. So I don't know if it has happened to you, Amy or Mark that you go to a website and then you're like, okay, I want to buy this product. But then you keep scrolling, trying to find information, trying to book the service or the product. And it's quite difficult. This is something that we need to avoid at all costs. Okay. So we have to make it super easy. And I think the best example is Odoo. All right. So when you go to Odoo, one of the first things that you see is book a demo. So you book a demo because if you think about it, an ERP is not an easy product, right? It's not like you just go one day or like, okay, I want to get an ERP, you know? No. So you book a demo and then, uh, someone from Odoo will contact you right away, and then they will do a qualification. They will try to understand all your needs, all your pain points, all the things that you would like to have in in a point B. So once they understood all of this, they will create a demo for you and they will show you all the things that you wanted on on a video call. And then they will say, okay, here's your quotation, here's what you have to do. These are the next steps. And they make it so easy for the client that it's like, okay, nice. I'm actually happy that this company is giving it so easy to me, because then I can use this time for other things in my company. So that's super nice that we can actually, uh, make it an easy path for the clients. Also, uh, it is important that we, when we make this mapping to have it very clear when we are creating for our product. Okay. So using like, um, call to action buttons saying like, okay, book a demo here or let's have a chat and stuff like that.

AMY: 13:31

Okay. So it's all in these details that can That's the reward.

MAR: 13:36

Yeah. Another hypothesis expect errors. There's a kind of like a very famous quote, which is humans are the only animals that stumble on the same stone twice. This is something that just happened to humans. If you go with a dog, the dog would never happen. If you go with an elephant, elephant would never happen just with humans. So we need to understand that we are prone to errors. So it goes a little bit with the same direction as what my colleague was explaining. To simplify, try to make things as easy as possible. Simplify. Because what? For me, it's obvious. Maybe for someone else it's not obvious. So if you get the most clarity as possible, you're going to make sure that the answer that you're receiving is exactly what you're expecting. And this we can see a lot in the forms. It's very normal that when we are doing some commercial actions and we want to gather information, we sent a form for our prospects to fulfill with the name or the surname or even some extra information. And suddenly we receive the forms and we were like, what? What is this? And it's because what? For me, it's obvious what I said. For other person it's not. So if we can put, uh, very specific details, like, for example, in the blank space what we're looking for, or if we're asking for specific questions instead of just leaving a blank space put. Option A, B, and C, we're going to make sure that the person that is answering that form is answering you what you are expecting them to answer. And in another situation are the meetings, commercials. Well, we have a commercial role and we know that we have tons and tons of meetings and it's quite common that suddenly, oops, no one is appearing. So we internally fix this by using the well, by understanding that, well, humans, they don't appear always. And what we do are reminders. This is very important if you want to make sure that someone is going to attend to your meeting, you need to set reminders. Because if it's a meeting that, well, some for some people, it will be very interesting. They will mark it in the calendar, then will that person will come. But if it's a commercial meeting that maybe someone booked two weeks ago and it's not that important for them anymore, or they have a lot of workload, the chances of not appearing are much higher than if you, for example, one hour before or the day before you set a reminder. And that person said, okay, uh, I have this meeting tomorrow. I'm going to make sure that I'm going to be there on time.

PEDRO: 16:11

Yes. Another one. One of my favorites is personalization. Okay. So I don't know if it has happened to you that you receive an email and it's super general and super boring and doesn't even have a relation with you. Well, this is something that nudge actually encouraged you to do the opposite to actually personalize things, understand who is the other person, and maybe send emails saying like, hello Amy, how are you doing today? And stuff like this really make the difference. One of the cases that I got it was that I bought like a little present for, for my nephew. He's six months and, and then like two months later, I mean, two months ago I received an email, uh, saying, hey, for your kids, we have an amazing promotion. I'm like, oh, no, please, no, I don't have any kids. I don't I'm not planning to have any soon. Uh, but these kind of things are a bit funny. And then you're like, okay, no, no, I don't really want to buy from this, you know? Uh, so that's really important. And also to connect with the added value that your product or service can give to, to, to the customer. Right. And also always to connect with the pain points. And it's a little bit what I said before about like, although it's something that constantly is looking to connect with the pain points of the clients, what is bothering right now of your situation and how can we make it better? And this personalization is what makes your product way more attractive. And it makes sense to the client to have it right.

AMY: 17:34

Yeah, it shows that your business is trying to focus on their needs and give them what they need.

PEDRO: 17:41

Exactly, exactly. This nudging theory is not for you to take advantage of the customer at all, is to actually engage with them and take the most for both, you know? So so I think that's important.

MAR: 17:54

And another one, it's, uh, the defaults. This comes along a little bit with the laziness of the people. The default hypothesis. What explains that? If we set default options, we have higher chances of, uh, the people to, to get that option moving forward, that if they have to manually click on the option. And this is something that we can apply very easily in the newsletters. I think almost everyone that has an e-commerce or a company that is selling, uh, products or either services, they have a newsletter. And sometimes we struggle a lot to have people in these newsletters, because no one is going to go to your website and apply to the newsletter unless you're giving a kind of like a benefit that we were explaining earlier at the beginning. So, for example, if when the client is purchasing an item or when it's creating the account, if you have this option of subscribing to the newsletter and it's set by default, you're going to have higher chances of having the new prospect of your client subscribe to your newsletter than if you just have that blank space and the person needs to manually go and click it. And yeah, so it's kind of like works with the laziness of the people.

AMY: 19:13

And it's funny because you can definitely see the default or if they're like, no, this company is not going to get me. Nice try.

MAR: 19:22

That also goes along a lot with the profile and marketing actions have a very different impact if the person is aware of them and if it's not, if you are aware, if you understand how marketing works, you are not going to be as affected as someone that is completely unknown on the field. So as much more you get dig in, then you're more less likely to be affected by the commercials that you're having.

AMY: 19:53

A gift and a curse.

PEDRO: 19:56

Yes. And the last hypothesis that we have for you Is changing social norms. What does this mean? Basically, we are human beings, right? We are social creatures. We actually get a lot of influence from what others do, and this is something that we can use as nudging as well. And it's like use these incentives for, for, for people. So for instance, I don't know, 80% of the people have bought this specific product, or maybe three people have actually booked this hotel room in the last 24 hours. You know, this is something that we usually see. And actually it really encourages us, like, okay, you know, people are actually booking this. They are buying this product. Maybe I wanted to and and also one that I really like is the one that when you are now going to buy a jacket and then it says, oh, many people that bought this jacket also bought this t shirt and you're like, oh, okay. Actually it looks like a great combination. I want it too. So, so this is something that you could also use, um, in nudging and it actually works a lot. And I think it can bring a lot of value to, to, to your product or service that you're selling today. Because for sure, you don't only have one. And for sure your area of industry complements a lot. So so it's good to take this advantage.

AMY: 21:13

Absolutely. And I guess all of these strategies kind of mix and match. And then we go back to being sure that it's aligned with your values depending on which works for your company and your focus. Um, so if we go a little bit more in depth, um, do you have any examples of nudging when it comes to e-commerce and mass mailing and specifically how this can be applied with Odoo?

PEDRO: 21:38

Ah, this is great, Amy, I like it, I like it, Uh, actually, super good that you brought this topic because Odoo is an ERP that even though they don't sell it, like, wow, perfect for marketing or for nudging, uh, actually has a lot of tools that actually work a lot and are very aligned for of what we are talking today. So as you mentioned, we have some in communication channels. So for instance, we have uh everything that is related to for instance, the personalization hypothesis that is creating uh, something that is personalized to your person. So for instance, we have the placeholders in the newsletters in the mass mailing and CRM. And and this way when you create communication, you actually direct it to the person that you want to the public that you are targeting. Uh, not only saying, hello, Ma. Hello, Amy, which is super important, but also like maybe to a specific public. So like it doesn't happen. What happened to me when you're sending, like, baby clothes, you know, you actually targeted it. Well, then also we have, um, what is, uh, the link trackers and call to action buttons. Uh, this is really cool because in the marketing apps, you can see, for instance, which campaign is working better than the other. So you throw both of them to the market and see which one is having higher response than the other. And this way also automatically says, okay, this campaign is the one that we're going to keep working on, and it's going to bring you more customers at the end of the day. And also, one of the techniques that are that are super important is to have this call to action buttons that it says, like, I don't know, have a free demo with us or click here to check our amazing products with discounts or uh, to get more information. Getting here. And this is important because it has happened that we check many websites of different type of industries and services, and these are missing. And it's important for for the people to connect and to and to have these actions that actually bring you something back. Right.

AMY: 23:43

And encouraging them to interact with the page well.

PEDRO: 23:47

Exactly, exactly. So all of these kind of tools like AB testing, create a lot of value to your strategies. And then you can say, okay, this is actually working for me or this is not and and bring that the growing of your, your company.

MAR: 24:04

And, uh, for the e-commerce. We have so many things because, uh, well, my my colleague didn't mention, but we have plenty of applications for marketing, social media marketing, email marketing automation. But marketing is not just in specific actions of marketing. You can also do a lot of interaction and engagement with your clients just by editing your e-commerce, that sometimes the people gets lost in that in that area, like they start doing a lot of newsletters, a lot of emailing, a lot of contacts form CRM, but they forgot of the importance of having a proper website in in which their visitors really see a history. They go through the website and they have different interactions with your website. So we wanted to also show some actions that you could put in place in your e-commerce by using the Odoo e-commerce features that will also engage with your customer and speed up the sales. One of the options that Odoo has is the upselling and cross selling. This is something that we see a lot in a lot of websites, and the reasons why we see it is because it's really efficient, and the reason why it works is because when you are want something, you go into the website and you search for that specific thing. But there are plenty of other things in the website that for sure you love and you like and you need, but in that specific moment, you're not thinking about them. So if the website doesn't show you that specific product, the chances that you end up seeing that product and buying them are very low. So if we make that process already automatic, and when that customer is going to go to that specific product, and we're going to show another one where the chances of buying it because the need is kind of like it goes together hand by hand. Uh, if we show it, then the chances of that person buying it are very high. Also, there is another thing which is building community. My Pedro already mentioned it the importance of what other people are doing. We are social beings. We are living in a community. And even though we keep saying, oh, I don't care what people say, we do care, we do care. And the fact of being able to have reviews or seeing that someone has already bought the product gives you a lot of confidence in that website.

AMY: 26:30

Yeah, absolutely. I can I can attest to that one. If there's no review, I'm like, I'm not sure I want to try it.

MAR: 26:36

Yeah. Like even my my cousin, she talked to me something in this website? I was like, oh no, I didn't know it. And I was like, okay, then I don't think I'm going to buy it because I'm not sure if I can trust in it. So the fact of giving already showing a community, showing reviews, showing pictures, uh, it gives a lot of added value to the visitors. And the good thing is that you can do this by reviews, or even you can have a forum where the people can interact to it. And then this gives you two benefits. In one side, it gives more. It builds trust with your new visitors. But it also it's very good to position your website in Google. So you're kind of like attacking two two different paths, which is amazing. We like to do more and less time. That's kind of like the idea of Odoo and another. It's the urgency. If we don't have kind of like an urgency, like we don't have a period of time to do something. If we have unlimited time, we're never kind of going to rush on doing anything. And of course, on purchasing something. And this is very important because if we don't rush our customers to buy something, maybe they just forget about it. They get, well, don't get interest anymore after a couple of weeks or they don't need it anymore. Something that you need today. In two weeks you might not need it. Or maybe you just pass through another shop. It was there and you bought it, so you're losing the chance of having that customer buying it. So every time that you're selling something, a benefit for your customer, let it know when it's the deadline and you will make sure that instead of saying, okay, I will do it tomorrow, you will make sure that they will purchase in that specific moment. And I have an example for that. Well, the sale is just they're just over. And I have been for a month thinking, oh, I have to go, I have to go. I want to just go and check what it's there. And I went last week and it was over and I didn't know that it was over. And I was so frustrated. So it was not just that I didn't purchase anything, which is bad for the for the company, but I was frustrated with the company too, because I didn't know they didn't inform me. So yeah, it's kind of like double negative effect.

AMY: 28:54

That's really funny. You know, as a consumer I'm thinking, okay, which is the one I'm falling for the most. And I think that. This sense of urgency or being influenced like it's the last one left. I fall for that all the time, but something that can be interesting to know as you're both experts on the topic, what type of nudge do you feel like you fall for the most?

SPEAKER4: 29:18

Oh, I didn't.

AMY: 29:19

Give you time to think.

SPEAKER4: 29:20

About it.

PEDRO: 29:21

So I mean, it's crazy because every day now that topic, you see nudging everywhere, really everywhere. Like like in the websites, when a picture is looking at the click to action button, people actually click more and stuff like this. You see it everywhere. So it's difficult to say in my case which one is my favorite, but maybe what I really like and maybe to to to give us an advice for, for for the clients, I mean for the companies is having a very clear structure like this mapping I think is the one that it's the one that gives more added value to the client, but also to you. So I really like that one. Like mapping.Yeah.

AMY: 30:03

Nice.

MAR: 30:03

For me it's the personalization. Like I, I have studied marketing. So I every time that I see something that it's put there on purpose, I'm like, ah no. But the moment that I start interacting, creating an interaction with someone and building a relationship with someone and creating kind of like emotions and connections, that's something that it's so inherent from the humans that you cannot control it. So if a brand has built if a community around me and I have created kind of like an image of belonging to that brand, I will be most likely to buy that brand instead of another one. So I think the building a community and like personalizing the communication. So I feel part of it. It's kind of also I feel that they're making an effort to reach me, and because of that effort, I feel more attracted to it. So I would say that one for me, definitely.

PEDRO: 31:03

They understand you at the end. Yeah, they understand me.

MAR: 31:05

They're making an effort. They they want me to be part of their customers. So yeah, that kind of like interaction and effort and personalizing everything. It really I think it has a lot of value for myself.

AMY: 31:20

And this is the part where you have some critics They have too much of my information. But if we think about it, if we keep a positive outlook, it can be a positive impact on your on your life. And if they aren't abusing this information, which they shouldn't be, then you know, all of these tools and strategies can really be a positive experience for both the business and the consumer.

PEDRO: 31:42

Yeah, exactly.

MAR: 31:43

Totally. I have a lot of friends that, um, now Instagram, suddenly an advertisement of something that you were just speaking about appears. And I know a lot of people, they're like, oh, but this is not normal because the phones are listening to you. And I always say to them, you're not a police officer, like, uh. Like your. Life. It's not that important. Like, it's okay, they listen to you, and at least it's so nice because you know that you want that, but you don't really know where to get it. And but it appears there, so it's very nice.

PEDRO: 32:18

Totally the opposite. Like, honestly, I don't want them to listen to me. I think there are limits to, you know, like yeah, but it's important. Again, I think we come back to the topic that that you mentioned before, it's important to, to understand what are the ethics and what are the values that you want to bring, because you can create a bad image for your company too. So you really need to be careful and understand those limits. And what are your values. So so I think that's important.

MAR: 32:44

Yeah. And also nudging at the end what nudge So you need to what you need to aim is to push your customers or your prospects into positive things for them. If you're pushing them towards something positive, the reaction and the image of your brand, it's always going to be positive. If you push them towards something that it's going to be negative or it's going to create a negative impact on them, then it's where you're surpassing the limits.

PEDRO: 33:13

And pushing. But in the sense of not being too pushy, you know?

AMY: 33:17

Right.

PEDRO: 33:17

Just showing them the option like very clearly, The product here is the service. Don't get super confused on the okay I need to be super pushy. No no no no. When we mean with pushing it's like showing them very clearly what is the option? The product.

MAR: 33:30

It's a. Little push.

AMY: 33:33

And of course not to freak any of our gauge that you can start slowly and then increase. If you go a bit too far, you can pull back. So it's not, uh, uh, you cross the line, it's over situation. There's a big gray zone there.

PEDRO: 33:50

Yeah.

AMY: 33:51

Um, well, that is just about all the time we Um, do you have any last final tips or number one thing you would like to say to our listeners?

PEDRO: 33:59

Yeah, definitely. I mean, we had a talk in the So you can go to YouTube to Odoo channel and check for, for for our talk for sure. There you will find other hypotheses and tips and how to use nudge. Then I will say it's important to understand which things that you hear in this podcast. Are you actually applying in your company? Maybe you didn't know they were nudging, but maybe try to see, okay, actually this nudging, let's try it and actually evaluate is making sense. Is it working? What are the numbers out of these. Try to metric everything from from my side. I think that will be the two main.

MAR: 34:37

I also wanted to remark the fact of understanding Because for sure, if you realize, like now, that the people that are listening to us, they're kind of like realizing what is this nudging thing, what it's related to, what is it about? They will kind of like go back and say, oh, but I do use nudging in a lot of things because most of the commercials and the people that works in marketing, they're actually using nudging strategies, but without knowing that their nudging strategies, just because they buy repetitive actions, they end up doing them because they were doing different activities and they got to evaluate which were weren't working and which were not, but they didn't understand from where they were coming or they were just taught. Like, if you do that, it's going to work. But I think it's much more interesting to understand, like that's what's the background like. Why. So, um, I will also encourage people that are listening to us if they're interested on the topic. There is a book that is called nudging, which is very interesting, and it's a very famous, uh, economist and professor in science and understanding, like human beings. They both wrote it. So I would tell everyone to go for it. And it's a it's an amazing reading.

PEDRO: 35:53

Maybe you have some homework for the people So maybe you can start listening all over again this podcast and maybe write down, uh, which hypothesis we say, which tips we mention and how we use it with Odoo as well. And maybe, uh, try to associate it with your company and say, okay, I'm going to use this strategy in this one and this one in another one. So and you can engage in our pod that is in the description. So we can actually discuss with you. And you can ask your questions and and get some answers too.

SPEAKER4: 36:25

Yeah.

AMY: 36:25

That's good homework.

MAR: 36:27

And uh also I think it's super nice because we specific activities of marketing actions or how or social media website or application works or website or all the other apps that we have related to marketing work. So I think it's good to, after listening to our podcast, that they kind of like understand how these old nudging concept works to go and also hear those podcasts that tells you how to put it into place, those actions. Because of course, you need to not just understand the concept, but you need to put into place the actions. And for that, Odoo is an amazing tool.

AMY: 37:06

Amazing. Well, with those beautiful final words, Thank you both very much for taking the time to discuss today. Thank you. And that's a wrap. I hope you had a great time listening to our conversation. If you have a question, I invite you once again to ask us or leave any other comments in the pad that's linked in the description. We're looking forward to connecting with all of you. And if I don't see you, good afternoon, good evening and good night.